Manzanillo- WLI Property

[hptschupp]

This is a discussion about the WLI property in Manzanillo. Please no ranting or making others wrong. This should be a FACT thread only. Im not related to WLI and not biased. I'm reseraching this property to all possible details as well as the closer environment (villages, stores, roads, beaches, water quality, infrastructure etc). It might be a longer thread with photos, GPS coordinates, movies and much more.

For now, this is an excerpt of Google Earth which shows the approximate location of the WLI property. (30+70 lots). More coming soon.

Estimated distance from the property to the beach (closest line) 4.5 km

By the way,  I do Internet High Definition movies.

[hptschupp]

This is a shot from about 5 km to the Nort East of the property (behind red line there is the presumed property). In the background GOLFO DE NICOYA.

[Russ]

These are great shots.  How did you track down the location of the WLI property?  Who put in the white lines on the first shot?  What are they?  The panoramic photo is a shot you took while visiting the WLI property?

Thank you for your assistance here. And please everyone do stick to the facts.

[hptschupp]

Thanks for the reply and for running this Forum, Russ.

Tracking Property: Since my wife bought a lot in Manzanillo, I have all the newest property plans. They include the adjacent "roads" (Caminos). I also have a topographical map in the scale of 1:200,000, which shows decent details. I actually did a triple overlay -> 1)satellite photo, 2) topographical map 1:200,000 and 3) Lot plans. The location of the property is pretty certain. The exact size however might be not to exact to scale yet. I ordered the 1: 50,000 topographical maps of this area and will do the homework again when they arrive. This should provide a 4 times more accurate pinpointing. I certainly will post the result, once available.

White Lines: The white lines are some of the (3rd class) roads depicted on the 1:200,000 topographical map, transferred into the satellite picture. I added them with Paint Shop.

Panoramic Photo: Your assumption is correct. We drove on top of two hills from where we could see the property.

[hptschupp]

More topographical researches and overlay experiments brought about a more accurate positioning of the property.

[ekbk]

Hi
I am new on this forum, and I find it very informative. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you couple of Q. about Manzanillo
1.Are you going to live in CR or you investing.
2.Do you have prior experience with WLI
3.When did you buy your lot.
4.Is whole area going to be developed anytime soon

The reason I am asking is I have got an offer to buy lot at the same place, so your opinion will be extremely valuable to me.

Sincerely
ekbk

[Russ]

This thread was opened to post on the development, thanks to the great pictures by hptschupp. 

You can see the opinions here.
WLI discussion board

[hptschupp]

ekbk

1. For now mainly investing. We don't have any plans to move in the next few years.

2. We don't have any prior experience with WLI. But we did thorough researches before and were talking with several people before we bought. We also know one of their employee years back, when he was here in Clearwater. Our business relation and impression of WLI is throughout positive. We visited their office in San Pedro Mall at San Jose. It seems to be a professional operation with at least 7 staffs right there in several offices.

Our pick up at the airport, transfer to the Fiesta resort close to Puntarenas and the final property presentation were all very enjoyable. Since our flight was 4 hours late into San Jose we went directly to the resort and spent the following 2 days by travelling through the country with a rental car. Then the second last day we went with a WLI agent and saw the property from about 5km distance. Time was limited and we had to drive to San Jose for our next day flight back to Florida.

When home, we started to ask all the questions we missed to ask when we were there. Why didn't they show us the property from the existing access road (see picture above) ? How does the property really look like? Can you see the Golf of Nicoya? and more. That's when I got the idea to make more researches.

3. Two months ago.

4. WLI promises access roads and basic utilities (electricity, water, sewer) within one year. The remaining parts are subject to more researches.

[hptschupp]

Selecting a property

For evaluating a property I see three major components: 1) Property itself   2) Environmental factors and  3) Price comparison.

In this post I only will cover the Property itself.

Buying a property in the WLI Manzanillo Lot doesn't necessarily mean you got a good deal. Watch what you buy! Some of the properties are on the North side of the hill, hence no view to the Golf of Nicoya. Some of the parcels I saw on the master plan have an inclination of nearly 45 degree - too steep for a future estate development. For a precise evaluation you need a low scale topographical map with contour lines of 20 meters or below. Then you are able to determine the topographical shape. Also find out if a creek is passing through the middle of the property. This might restrict your future building plans.

Request a detail plan of your property, such as this one and compare with the master plan.



I the middle you see the property number. The contour lines have a vertical distance of 10 meters. The number in the property is the total area in square meters. The faint blue line is a creek most likely only carying water during the rainy season.

[hptschupp]

Here the presumable view from the top of Cerra Piedra Negra. (Simulated with Google Earth).



Download and install Google Earth.
ZOOM IN to any location you wish to inspect.
ADJUST TILT to obtain a bird perspective, (to your right you see the Eye altitude above sea level).

[Juanusa]

Is the Manzanillo location  the same than Colorado . ? I have seen Colorado in a map North of Manzanillo
I am considering buying in Colorado , I was told it is north of Manzanillo and only  1200 feet from the water .
The plot plants I received do not look like the one of Manzanillo , they are 2.5 acres each lot and only about 9 available for sale now...
I need further clarification, I never was told by sale office of any property in Manzanillo ....
I am trying to do my due diligence and research and plan to visit the area but I am confuse about the location of the area, and the individual features of each lot ...
Anyone would like to comment in the potential  for development and growth of the area , is it in the path of progress or need 20 years ?

[Russ]

Yes there is a Colorado north of Manzanillo in the Gulf of Nicoya. The town appears to be right on the coast, but I don't know it personally. Is your information from WLI or John Ryan?

In my opinion this area has no factors that would cause anyone to project a growth spurt in the near future. It is remote, access is rough, and there is no magnet for development.  As an example, our family owned property in Punta Morales, which is really close to Puntarenas and the market there continues to be the same as it has been for the last 10 years. 

[Juanusa]

Thanks for your reply.
I started interested in CR about 6 days ago, I have done some searchs and inquires, it take time ! I have spent quite a few hours in the PC , reserching CR, and
Actually I was sent photos of  Manzanillo and some plotting diagram and copy of original escritura.or part of it) I did not like the mountains ,( too far from the beach) , then I was told  by wli about Colorado, I turned my attention to Colorado , because it is closer, just about 1200 feet the lower lots and about 2400 feet from the beach the higher lots, the inclination is about 15-20 degrees..., Like most people  I look for specific facts when  I plan to buy land , it seems to me , hard to get those facts, like faily acured  distances, real facilities, descriptions .  Fortunatly , these forum are very informative , the work done by Hptschupp is oustanding, , thanks for your comments on Punta Morales , I will check on that area , as comparative point .
Also I think it is possible, that areas that are not developed yet, but are in the path of progress , are the best , now the question is : Is it reliable the information about what is going to be built ...(I don't count on it...)I have seen areas on my city in Florida, where was already in planning stage, with drawing etc for a majpr rode improvement, and it took 26 years to do it, !!!, but on other hand , sometimes
properties can be bought on speculation today and sold in few months to another  one who also speculate in the future value  , at a 15% -20% profit , and that is what I'm looking for.....of course not advisable for the one who need the money for living expenses .All together I prefer a place , already more expensive , but the improvements already there , close to the water even if its far from the monkeys...! lol ...Juan    * I heard of LOMAS de SANTA ROSA , near Tamarindo  Beach Guanacaste ...is this is the path of progress

[hptschupp]

Hi Juanusa,

Here an excerpt of an area mapof the area. You see the location of Colorado in relation to Manzanillo. Scale 1:200,000. Reference distance: Closest line from Colorado to the beach is 2km.

Unfortunately maps in this country are not readily available. I ordered the 1:50,000 maps of the area. But I was told, they are all backordered and will be printed "soon".

[Russ]

* I heard of LOMAS de SANTA ROSA , near Tamarindo  Beach Guanacaste ...

Tamarindo is one of the most developed beach towns in Costa Rica and property values have appreciated significantly in the last 3-5 years.  Contact ABC Real Estate Tamarindo for information on specific developments, properties and builders. 

There are new projects that you can purchase pre-construction and make a good profit once it is completed, but you have to be sure of the developer and the project's potential market value.

[Juanusa]

Thanks very much...
My interest have shifted dramaticly, towards areas more developed and with better terms, I found a place across Quepos, or Manuel Antonio
where I paid a downpayment of  $35,000 for 2 lots of 1.25  acre each ,rest to $100,000 to be paid in 5 years with no interest accumulated...Also  it is  only 3-4 miles from Manuel Antonio beach ,  big Marina in Quepos area ..is in planning stage  , infrastructure and gate is well advanced .
I noticed that in  the map, it appears that at the  beach  across Colorado it said sand/Lodo ? .(very small , all along the little dots at the water edge..? . All together the people of WLI have been very nice and helpful , I check references of past sales and got favorable input . Again ,your maps are great!!! thanks

 

[hptschupp]

According to the map symbols there are Mangrove Swamps & Holillo Forest in the Colorado Beach Area. (Green shadings). This is also confirmed by satellite imagery.

The black dotted area is Lowlands, so a vaguely definded shore line depending on tidal levels.

Summarized, not an attractive area for swimming!

The Manzanillo Beach looks more promising. I'll get some pictures this week.

[frettless]

Downpayment of 35K and the rest in 5 years with no intrest? I've heard that pitch from Paragon Properties.  Have you seen the actual piece of land that you are buying or the title? Let me know how it goes as if this is for real I would be interested but I go by the motto that if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

[hptschupp]

Click link below the thumb-nail, to obtain a larger picture.



View to the North-West | Boat Ramp  | Water Quality  |  View to Isla Chira | View to the South-East

The Manzanillo beaches comprises a peppy nature with gray volcanic sand/shell beaches. A prominent boat ramp makes it possible to launch even larger vessels for tidal differences of up to 15 feet. The water is somewhat murky but still clear enough to take a swim. Remarkable is the untouched and pristine nature along the entire shoreline.

[hptschupp]

Click link below the thumb-nail, to obtain a larger picture.



Restaurant | Store  |  School Entrance | Gymnastic Hall  |  School Buildings

Manzanillo is a small settlement with a restaurant, a small grocery store, a soccer field and a nicely sized school. It's a conspicuous feature of even a small and mediocre village to have a relatively good organized school. A rumor says that Costa Rica boasts about having more teachers than police men, and this affirmation is a source of great pride, since Ticos feel that their high education level sets them apart from many less fortunate countries in the world. Many of Costa Rica's rulers have been educators as well, and have placed great importance in the expansion of primary and secondary education, even in the most remote areas of the country. Thanks to these and to ongoing reforms, Costa Rica has a 93% literacy level.

Except some fishing activities and cattle farming there is not much going on in this tiny village. Tourists are hardly seen in this remote area but are warmly welcome by the local Ticos. The connecting dirt roads are in relative good conditions with only a few pot holes.

[hptschupp]

Click link below the thumb-nail, to obtain a larger picture.



Settlement | Abandoned Church | Cattle Farm | Horse Riding | Monkey

Tortugal is an abandoned village with only a scattered farms. As the village name is derived from "Tortuga=turtle" we didn't see any of those but no visit to Costa Rica would not be complete without seeing any monkeys. They seem to be the liveliest and most vocal jungle tenants. Beyond the reach of most predators, they have little inhibition about announcing their presence with their roughhousing and howls, chatterings, and screeches. The sudden explosive roar of the howler monkey--a sound guaranteed to make your hair stand on end!--is said to be the loudest sound in the local jungle of Tortugal.

[hptschupp]

Click link below the thumb-nail, to obtain a larger picture.



Airfield | Souvenir Shop |  Main Junction | Suggar Cane Farmer | Comunal Hall

Abangaritos airstrip is one of about 60 in Costa Rica which are more a large sized dirt road. Only an tail dragger with large main wheels can land here since the ground is very mushy. Forget about bringing your own Cessna into this field. In Costa Rica there are actually only 4 airports which are general aviation capable. The airfield is mainly used by the local sugarcane farmers. As the above satellite picture shows, Abangaritos has widespread green areas which indicate sugarcane fields. Sugarcane is the most important economic crop in Abangaritos.  One of the most exciting proposals under development is the sugarcane for biofuel project, in which there is keen interest.  In addition to providing fuel-grade ethanol, Costa Rica uses sugarcane biofuel to generate electricity which could then be sold throughout Central America.

The Electric Grid in Costa Rica is the same as in the US for the end user, namely 120V AC/ 60Hz. Compared to the US, the transport cables of electricity into rural areas look even more like a wild spaghetti maze, but they seem to work.

[hptschupp]

Click link below the thumb-nail, to obtain a larger picture.



Sign | Sport Hall |  Church | School | Property Sales

Coyolito is the name of the quaint little village in the Abangares Canton. Actually it is the closest settlement to the WLI property. Like all other villages, there are not much going on here. A church, a soccer field and a well outlined school are standard establishments. The multipurpose Sport Hall seems to be abandoned. Two companies offer properties, one is Coyolito S.A. (Local office) and the other one is Oasis realty S.A. (Office based in Canada).

[hptschupp]

This is a view of the WLI-Propery from the front side. The hill to your right is the Cerra Pedra Negra. The parcels reach from the street (where the shot is taken from) up to the hill tops.

Here another shot:

[Russ]

This thread was opened to post on the development, thanks to the great pictures by hptschupp. 

You can see the opinions here.
WLI discussion board

New information posted on the opinion thread after my visit last week to the WLI property and area. 

Here are some other photos of the Manzanillo beach:




And from an ocean view building site on the WLI property.

[hptschupp]

Due to mainly topographical reasons and dalays in the lot zoning we decided to withdraw from the Manzanillo project. We asked for a refund from WLI and got the money back promptly  within 3 weeks. Overall we had a good experience with WLI. The value of the Manzanillo Property however is another story, especially the lots on the higher, steep areas are useless in my opinion.

Thanks for reading my posts.

And thanks for the nice title too:

[Russ]

Thank you for participating in the forum and I am glad that you were able to get your refund with no trouble. 

[Russ]

Update on WLI -

Internet real estate chief snagged in online scam case
By the A.M. Costa Rica staff

Law officers arrested the president of a Costa Rican real estate Internet marketing operation Friday on a U.S. fraud charge related to other online activities.

[Balestriere]

Downpayment of 35K and the rest in 5 years with no intrest? I've heard that pitch from Paragon Properties.  Have you seen the actual piece of land that you are buying or the title? Let me know how it goes as if this is for real I would be interested but I go by the motto that if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

Balestriere Philip.

I recieved a package from Paragon Properties and it all look so good and proffessionaly laid out, for some reason, I had trouble mailing them 25K for property site unseen, when I googled their Attornies name, I came up with this site that said, this is a scam and as i read on other peoples input, there seem to be different input. The same 5 years no payment or interest.

I was working with Lyle for about a week, I was suppost to fedex him 25k on a property in Sunset Beach, I delayed being it that I had no time to further research them, I was sitting at the diner having breakfast when Lyle called me to see if I had mailed out the 25k, I told him no and I would not be purchasing the property, at that point he got nasty, talking like, you don't have the money and repeated him self, I told him that I would come to Cost Rica i n January and that I would call him then, his respose was, I spent a week on this already and where done, so I told hime that I would not look him up when I get there and hug up on him, at this point, I'm not sure if this is real or not, but, I will say this, I will buy property in Costa Rica, but it will not be from Paragon, daised and confussed, I will update this when I return from Costa Rica.

[Barry]

Hi folks .I think I am  stating the very obvious .Why buy in the middle of nowhere ? Did someone visit the "beach "?.From my experience it is not beach but a tidal estuary consisting of mudflats with stong tides . You go up to your knees in mud . Also how do you know the lot you were standing on, if you managed to actual get there, has any resemblance to what you are actually buying .It wont be the first time someone buys a lot somewhere else .
Bazz